"I believe the capacity is about 35 students; there is no class that I know of that would be in danger of going over the fire specs.
The higher class sizes are due to budget cuts--this year we have five less teachers on staff than we did last year--that means more children per class.
That's been my primary concern all along--I know we have to cut the budget but as we do, class size increases and we want to keep them on the low side."
That's been my primary concern all along--I know we have to cut the budget but as we do, class size increases and we want to keep them on the low side."
Thank you Carrie for getting this response from Mr. Ingano, but I believe he is mistaken I believe there are or is a class or classes at or over 35 within the school. And a few very close to that. From what I witnessed. Is this the spec for every classroom in the middle school legal fire code requirements? aisle areas ,exit aisle and so forth within the proper area amount. (maximum 35 -does this also count the teacher -if so I know they are over code my child is in a class over that?) if you attempted to put 35 desk in some rooms you could not open the door ,hopefully the fire chief will visit the school and establish what if any changes need to occur, as long as our children are safe. Guess we need to make a call or hope the fire dept is on top of things like they normally are. -I also observed that some classes are large, some are small, I wish he had looked at how the new schedule was done, I think he might find alot of areas these classes could be made smaller or scheduling could have been established better. I guess Mr. Ingano needs to say something but "he believes" would have been a more comforting response if he said "He Knows". Budget cuts and decrease of 5 teachers. I watched that pretty close and I do not believe the middle school lost 5 teachers in the grades that have the over crowded classes. These are mostly in the upper 7th -8th grade areas. Although some are within that area in the lower grades also. Upsetting to me -In fact I would go so far as to say I do not believe the middle school total lost 5 Teachers because of budget cuts. I know Mr. Vetros retired, Mr. Bonci the year prior, a special ed teacher originally laid off but then offered job back, that is a job still open as the person did not come back. Might have missed someone leaving, but I really do not believe we lost 5 teachers in the middle school in the grades where over crowding is. five teachers over three schools I might agree with. But the problem addressed was and is the middle school. I get his desire to blame everything on needing more money, and to say everything is a budget cut outcome. But I disagree -please Terry take a walk, take a look, and see these things exist.-Some of these things can be resolved without money. I for one support the schools, but I am gravely disappointed in this response. thank you again Carrie for your efforts. Sorry if I posted a negative comment, wish I did not have too. But sometimes you just have to stand up and state what you believe to be true and do whatever you can for the children.
ReplyDeleteNo apology necessary. All comments are welcomed. And I'm also curious to see how this situation plays out.
DeleteI am taken back at Mr. Ingano's response "I Believe" he is the superintendent of schools.
ReplyDeleteHe should know those numbers right off the top of his head or at least have located the information to support it is a safe environment. I also do not remember 5 teachers being let go at the middle school. I have been in that school also and agree no way does 35 desks and chairs, and teachers desk and chairs fit in all those rooms, I doubt any room unless they are in very extreme close quarters.
Just think if you have even 31 students, one teacher and one paraprofessional a class size of 31 becomes 33. Your pushing the limits. If we did not lose teachers in the middle school, then it has to be the schedule and how it was done. Yes I agree Mr. Ingano you need to go see what's up. Our children and organization of our schools is #1 priority. People have been asking you on this page in many ways to see what's up.
I just learned today that my 4th grader's class has 28 students and when they go to "special" they add 5 students from another class. 33 students in class! A teacher may not have been lost from 4th grade, but there were seven 3rd grade classrooms last year and there are only six 4th grade classes this year. Those kids are short a teacher.
ReplyDeleteI have investigated the issues - there is a class of 36 students plus the teacher =37 in the classroom, no paraprofessional. just 36 students and 1 teacher. so by Mr. Inganos belief that 35 is within fire specs. Then we are over code by 2 in this class/per Mr. Ingano. I also can state that NO teachers were lost to budget cuts in the Clinton Middle School. So large class sizes can not be attributed to budget cut of teachers. It is clearly the new 7 and 8 grade schedule and how it was rolled out, and not attributed to lose of teachers. Again I agree Mr. Ingano you need to go over and open your eyes and get things organized. It is not lack of teachers. And your risking children by over crowding classes .
ReplyDeleteSad part is now two weeks into school , if you move children, they suffer, with having to readjust again, and it isn't there fault, its lack of experience and lack of responsible roll out of new scheduling.
You know I just sit hear and get more disappointed in the administration daily. The questions asked were valid,concerned,questions.
ReplyDeleteAll that was asked for was a truthful,knowlegable,response. As it is to every question I see people post on this blog, just people, caring, and wanting to help out improve the schools. You Carrie are in my opinion a wonderful person for putting your efforts into this. I can say that I have many times contacted principals, superintendents, and I used to get answers, now all you get is partial answers, or wrong answers, but I personally feel, that like others have stated you get labeled as oh that person is a pain, just pacify them, their opinion does not matter.
I feel the response above from Mr. Ingano to the question of the safety of our children, is a very important question, and I feel it deserved a totally knowlegable response. I believe means he did not even look it up, and by stating 35 and to his knowledge their is no code violation. Well there is per him. So he never even looked at the condition, class size of the middle school. And to state class sizes are bigger because of loss of 5 teachers in the middle school. Awful just Awful he acts like he did not even read the question and knew what school people were talking about. I find these responses of Mr. Ingano upsetting, he is a very devoted historian in the town, is the author of many books, and articles, and he doesn't know the above answers? He is such a particular individual with detail when he is discussing or publishing the history in this town, It just completely blows me away that this is the same person that as superintendent is giving these responses. I wish I knew how to achieve being heard. But I have lived it all, and already used every avenue and this is the worst I have ever seen it be. I watch, I wait to see the school committee intervene, I wait to see the superintendent handle matters,
I see the public begging them, but its like no one cares anymore. I feel so bad for the children, and the teachers in the middle school it is just so bad. Breaks my heart. Not in my nature to give up,in fact my normal reaction when I get backed against a wall, is to fight even harder. I don't want to put any disgrace upon the Clinton Schools, but right now I feel the issues that are being ignored by Mr. Ingano, safety,competent organization, at the middle school, and the fact he is not taking these question seriously, is a disgrace to our teachers and students, and the people of the town. I am going to watch the school committee this meeting on the 11th and watch for the morning newspaper to see what got discussed, I hope with all my heart, the school committee steps up to the plate, and addresses, that the middle school has big issues, maybe someone needs to step in, I do believe Mr. Rouleau is qualified, but what can he really do as the new kid on the block. Unfortunately they need to address Mr. Inganos responses also. I never wish anything bad upon anyone, I do not want to see people lose their jobs, but it's the children that count in this situation, and there have been multiple truths right on this site, that unfortunately point to maybe we need to look at the abilities of our administration. I will never saw they did not want to succeed, but right now at the middle school it's bad.
Agree with all of the above, parents are still learning on a daily basis about issues at the middle school, I learned also that when my child take technology in the 4th grade there is not enough equipment to go around so they share, and really aren't getting a chance or equal opportunities. Would be really nice is someone from the administration or school committee would at least say they hear.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I find on the Massachusetts Fire information site for public schools: all students are to be notified of fire exits ,procedures upon school arrival, and a Fire Drill is suppose to be done within 3 (three days) of the opening of school. I can locate NO KNOWLEDGE that a Fire Drill was done at the Clinton Middle School since the beginning of this school year. So either we have a law that I have interperted wrong, or we have no compliance with Fire Drill within 3 days of the start of school.
ReplyDeleteSchool started more than 3 days ago! Children I asked said they have not received instruction regarding fire exits yet. But they know where the exit doors are, I will give them that one. Anyone know if I misinterperted this or am I correct on this?
I asked my child and they said no fire instructions or drills.
ReplyDeleteI understand why everyone is upset. I don't understand why you are upset at Mr. Ingano. A vote was taken and lost at town meeting. Votes have consequences. He will educate the kids you send him on the budget you give him. So if it takes 50 kids a class that is what you will get. If you don't like it show up and vote or school choice!
ReplyDelete50 children per class? Now that would be impossible, no room is large enough for that one. I understand your anger towards people who ask questions, are concerned over class size, but Telling them to school choice? Or telling them to VOTE.I for one do VOTE, I VOTE for school money. But people deserve answers, and just because they have concerns or questions, they do not deserve to be basically driven out of town. The concerns I read here are FIRE SAFETY, CLASS SIZE, SCHEDULE Confusion
ReplyDeleteFire safety- does not cost a dime, unless you need to upgrade. Class size -is it because of the new revolving schedule isn't quite put together well? that doesn't cost money either.
You did not have this problem before the new schedule -you have no more children in those classes than prior, and you lost no teachers.
This is exactly why the majority of people in Clinton won't speak up publically -you will get beaten into the ground, for asking valid questions.
Heard people state and complain that same people are posting more than once on this blog,say hey it's only 2 or 3 people. So to avoid any question, yes I am the person who just posted above. But I find it important to just state a couple things now that its clear you should get out of town and school choice. Or you should not ask a question if it is going to stir the pot up in Clinton. Because you question Mr. Ingano your unfair. So I ask the person and Mr. Ingano the following:
ReplyDeleteOn what DATE since the opening of school has their been a FIRE DRILL in the CMS? (has not been one -would be the truthful answer)
On what DATE since the opening of school has their been a FIRE INSPECTION of the CMS during school hours. Where each room was determined to be fire safe? Each electrical appliance labeled and checked? Each aisle size out of these rooms is within code? Students have had fire safety instructions? (has not occurred yet?)
Class size: Is every class involved in the new revolving schedule at the level of 36 or is that just a few? Do we have classes in this revolving schedule with low numbers 20 or below?(yes there are low class # in some classes) Was the curriculum determined prior to roll out, or is it true teachers had to scramble day one? (they scrambled in some subject areas) Were all teachers aware of their new curriculum and classes prior to day one?(No many were surprised) Or was this disorganized, and now requires fixing post start of school.(yes it needs re-evaluation and fixing) No one is asking anything except valid questions, No one is beating on Mr. Ingano, or Mrs. Sargent.
People just want answers and truthful answers, in hopes of helping and bringing to light issues that can be fixed or they are concerned about. And Mr. Ingano is the accountable party at the end of the day. So in closing, I have taken the time, the effort to investigate those questions, as of this moment, I believe them all to be truthful. Where did I get these answers, visiting the school, asking the children in my home and their friends, speaking to teachers and other staff) I have been patient, awaiting these truthful answers from Mr. Ingano and or the school committee, but as you can clearly see, you get vague, answers if any. So if your brave, go the school committee tonight and ask these questions if you get honest answers I will applaud you and respect Mr. Ingano and Mrs. Sargent and the school committee. And I will have faith Clinton can be #1. I totally understand now why people don't want to give their names on this blog or anywhere actually. I don't believe an ounce of prevention ever hurt anyone. I believe that learning by your mistakes is a good thing. I want to see a turn around in Clinton, that people can get involved ask questions and not be pre determined by others of just being a trouble maker, or hey the same people always complain, so just ignore them.
Genuine concerns. I do feel on a good note we have a wonderful,experienced Fire Department, and I have all the faith in them that they will make sure CMS is safe. If they read this or hear about this I am sure they will be there. I am sure if there were any big issues they already identified them.
ReplyDeleteOur schools are very new(or have recently been renovated) they have wide hall's multiple exits fire extinquisthers a full time fire department and I'm sure many other safety procedures. I'm sure the Fire Dept will come and do a drill when it can in compliance with whatever requirements it has. Oh and the not having 50 kids a class that is not possible. I think it is very possible if we don't give the schools the resources it needs to hire teachers. Prisons just put beds in gyms and make do. They will educate your child with the resources you provide with your tax dollars. Really school just started I don't think the school needs more grief. They are doing the best they can!
ReplyDeleteDear Sir or Madam, the school was recently built or renovated? There have not been renovations or recent built Middle School.(we are still awaiting windows) Walls are cracked, windows don't work, fans are needed to cool the building down at teachers expense. paint is chipping off walls, chips are out of floor tiles. Desks are broken or on the verge of breaking, Overhead projectors and PC are obsolete, overhead screens not available in all rooms.Rooms are actually so cluttered it's almost impossible to clean.doors don't shut or are almost impossible to pull open in some rooms that adjoin. If so what was recently renovated? Fire Drill complaince is what sir or madam? 50 Kids is ok in a class( I believe you are mistaken, that definitely does not meet code-unless there are rooms of larger capacity then I have ever seen. There are children right now sitting on any area they can find (not enough chairs)and in cramped classrooms in some instances. (so that is ok?)well per your philosopy yes it is I guess provide a prison atmosphere. I do believe the teachers will provide the best they can with what they have, but some of these things don't cost money to fix. Have you walked into those classrooms, if so how can you say aisle are wide. (halls yes- classrooms NO) I have great faith in our fire dept, but I hope this year they walk into each and every room in the middle school and check things out.I hope they attend during the classes where children are packed in these rooms, Not just halls and observe a drill. Hopefully nothing will ever happen like a real fire and someone gets hurt. School just started so don't give them grief? I don't think anyone is giving them grief, just asking honest concerning questions. I sir or madam 100% believe these class sizes could be fixed, by simply looking at the scheduling and fixing it. You might have upper 20's but not classes in upper 30's. I hear your opinion, but to excuse things because school just started is not a reason to ignore , to accept things will straighten out later in the year, in my opinion is wasting precious education time for our children. You want more teachers? I want organization first and I want to see things were looked at. Then I will glady support with my tax dollars, which I do now. Doing the best they can. So just accept whatever and ignore any issues and let things just slide. That is exactly what is wrong with the middle school right now, lets make excuses, lets say give them time, lets say Principal was alone till recently, Lets just accept hey maybe things will straighten out by end of quarter one. I believe these class sizes are simply a result of a new revolving schedule that was not thoughtout and evaluated prior to start of school. and it was just get it done,so you can say you institued something new. Great idea but poorly executed. Sounds like your willing to wait and hope things are better by what mid December? You can't just keep on making excuses.
Delete50 students in a prison atmosphere in a gym is what we will get if we do not hire teachers. Problem as I read it is space at the current moment and lack of needed repairs. I would say you would be more accurate to state we need taxpayer money to Build a New School. If they cannot figure out a way to better organize and work with what they have.
DeleteMr. Gale will be paid $80,000 a year, although it will be less since he is beginning later in the fiscal year. Superintendent of Schools Terrance P. Ingano said the difference in salary will be used to pay the district’s consultant, Roger Young, to act as a mentor for Mr. Gale.
ReplyDeleteArticle worcester telegram and gazette, new business manager hired. 80,000 but less (how so they are using the money to pay for a consultant to mentor him) (there is no money saved on that position) Hope this position pays off, but we are saving no money,because we need to mentor him.
No other mention of any other topics published this AM ,guess it's same old same old, if you read Mr. Ingano's statement on the web page, Back to work, you can clearly see the philosophy he holds currently, Have only an optimistic attitude, ignore the needs if they are not good things to have to see. Only hear one point of view, the good one. Nice philosophy but unrealistic. I wish the new Business Manager the best.
Why is the Item article incomplete and the Telegram article give more facts? That's strange. Item article eliminates important facts. Neither however addresses any of the concerns people have asked. I don't think were going to see them either. This is discouraging,seems like they think in time it will just go away.
ReplyDeleteTo the Sir or Madam person, the Middle School was renovated when the Elementary school was built. That has to be about 10 years ago. We just paid for new windows at Town meeting. True it has no central air. That is too bad. Last time I was in Middle School I could not believe how clean it was and what good shape it was in for a building that was built in 1975. As far as 30 kids in a class that sucks! Show up at town meeting and vote for your schools!
ReplyDeleteOh but I do for vote our schools every single time. Windows I stated above partial replacement (not done yet) Last time I was there which was very recent cracks are in walls, paint is chipping, floors are with pieces chipped out. Desks are old some in need of immediate replacement. What renovations were done 10 years ago? I remember a roof repair years back. but that was a necessity. I saw halls painted off an on. I have seen duck taped window on one of my parent visit to the school a year or so ago, when I questioned it I was told it's expensive to fix and we have no money. (it did eventually get fixed)-but a broken window is a safety problem, and if we are that bad off we have to wait for weeks to repair it, something is wrong with the fiscal management. (so we have a good fix now -a business manager). Guess we just see a few things differently, which is fine. But we both agree, our schools need support. And I have and will always support the Clinton Public Schools.
DeleteI would like improvement in both things requiring no money, and things that require money. But I will always be there for them in whatever way possible. thank you for you response.